The Palermo Palm Springs marketing brochures and sales agents said we would have tennis courts. One brochure said the tennis court and other amenities "mean every day can be a vacation from the ordinary." The courts would be above the concrete "pond" that's already built on the undeveloped portion of Palermo. Many people mistakenly think the concrete pond on the back lot is where the third swimming was supposed to go. But the tennis courts were to go there. A water retention system already is below the concrete and is part of the Palermo infrastructure regardless of whether the undeveloped property in Phase 2 is foreclosed upon. Miss Penny Lane says: Anyone up for a tennis match in the concrete pond because she needs a break from the ordinary.
55 comments:
What is it about the "worst economic recession in U.S. history," that folks are not understanding? Do you think the developer deliberately decided NOT to complete the project because they thought it would be a smart business move? Do you think the developer is just playing "hard to get" ? C'mon folks, take a look around. Unemployment is the highest it has been in the last 20 years. Foreclosures are also at an all time high. California is lookin' at a 19 billion dollar shortfall for the previous fiscal year and more of the same for the new fiscal year coming-up. I do not understand the point of whining over and over again about this incomplete development...JOIN THE CLUB...there are THOUSANDS of unfinished projects all over the state and in other certain regions across the country and around the world. This recession real. The development here may be completed, but it may not. Make your concerns regarding the completion of this development known to the developer through your attorney and through your management agency and LET IT GO! It is all about the economy.
This developer even after the slowdown sold itself as Different, Solid.
Aww, c'mon, be nice. This isn't whining. It's more of a ..... lament. I mean, I consider myself a fairly smart person, and I realized buying property is a gamble in that the value of property may change. But, I'm not a real estate expert, I'm not corporate savvy, and it never occurred to me that the amenities they advertised might never be realized! I'm with Penny on this, I'm just really disappointed. I'm not from here, so I wasn't aware of the unfinished developments awash in PS. I was really counting on the tennis court, the dog park et al. But it looks like that may not happen.
Still, in my line of work, if I say I'm going to do something, I am held to that. No such principles, apparently, for developers. And you KNOW that the developer isn't losing his house! He won't be suffering! So, yeah, maybe it's the way business works in this country, but I won't fault anyone for feeling cheated.
Half full or half empty...at least you have a beautiful home, with decent landscaping, 2 pools, a clubhouse, a gym, gated security, fabulous neighbors, stunning views, excellent location, a concerned, caring board of directors...IT COULD BE MUCH, MUCH WORSE. Be grateful for what you have is all I'm saying and let your attorney work with the board and the developer to get the project finished when the economy improves...and it WILL improve--it may take years, but have faith.
caring board? that's rich. did u see the latest agenda meant to shut down homeowner input?
The only way the board can "shut down homeowner input," is if you (and other homeowners) do not show-up, ask questions, provide comment.
Any update on what the agenda is for the board meeting tonight, and if there is a call in number?
I have been reading the posts for some time now and it does seem that people are spending a lot of time re hashing the old news. I applaud the residents with the “let’s male lemon aid” attitude. I say this community can be anything WE make it to be. Let focus on the positive.
To the person that wrote, “Did you see how the board is trying to shut us down” Common now, did you expect them to let everyone talk as long as they wanted? Did you try to get on the board? Have you started a committee to improve things here? What have you done to make this place better? The board is doing the best they can, they are not paid they are volunteering their time! Anyone that is not happy with the board should throw their hat in ring, especially if they think they can do a better job. There is always someone to sit in the backdrop and criticize. It takes a special person to step to the plate. I commend our board taking one weight of Palermo on their shoulders. Maybe everyone should approach them and say, “Hi, I am …. How can I help here?
I too like the shift in attitude to one of "let's move on from here and make the best of what we can control".
PS, here are board meeting details:
Conference Call – (800)423-1988
Pass Code - 1480644
Shift in attitude? The board agenda just put out is an insult to residents.
The "Group of 3" seems to be controlling everything when they ran for the board on openness and communications, or at least 2 of them did, one has never been elected only appointed.
The agenda claims the time guidelines ensure that each owner will have an opportunity to speak, but no one ever has been denied an opportunity to speak because of time limits, give me a break, and much of the rest of agenda is vague - like one that lists a parking variance - so know one will be able speak up against it because we won't even know what it is about. This is a farce. The board also doesn't show anyone the minutes it is approving so we have no idea what's in them.
... and thanks Pen, you are the best and (only) way to speak out here.
First, there is a difference between speaking out and complaining. Someone said, “The agenda is a farce” did you personally contact anyone on the board to tell them some things that you wanted to see on the agenda? Someone said “Group of 3” controlling everyone yet they are asking for more board members but no one seems to want to join. As far as the “minutes not being public”, per haps you should approach who ever takes the minutes and offer to get them publicized. IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS THEY NEED AND WANT HELP. Again, armchair quarterbacking instead of trying to see what you can do to make it better. I see many great ideas here why will no one step up and help! I say New Day New Attitude, this is Positively Palermo not Negativity Palermo
This is perfect. There are open board positions and at least two committee positions available. For all the input offered via this blog we should be able to find at least one able bodied volunteer!
Only one homeowner spoker at homeowner forum, so so much for limiting the time. The agenda was an insult to owners. That is why people boycotted the meeting. People have had enough of this nonsense.
You have to admit that boycott is not going to solve anything. Allow me to ask you; how you suggest we proceed from here and is there anything you can do to help. It is common knowledge that all the homeowners took it bad. Forget weather in was intestinal or just another hit because of the economy. Millions of people lost everything and had no place to go. In that, respect be thankful that you have a cozy home to put you head down in and in the privacy of YOUR HOME not at your mothers, brothers or parents house. We will never move ahead if we keep looking behind us. Have people here made mistakes YES, have people made bad decisions, probably but maybe it is time to forgive. The grass is always greener on the other side but our grass is not looking that bad either. I say fertilize it, water it give it a little TLC and get it greener. PLEASE DON”T GIVE UP it is not fair to your or me
The board can't say it wants input and then try to control it such an offensive way. BTW we were told 2 years that only board members not owners could put stuff on the agenda.
How much do we pay Brandy?
They said Colt will be gone in two weeks.
When did the agenda come out? Hours before the meeting? Fire those responsible. Hi Melissa.
I went to my first board meeting last night. While they had to get through a lot of tedious stuff, they seemed very ready to hear from the homeowners. They also seemed anxious for new board members to fill the two empty slots. Finally, they encouraged homeowners to apply for certain committees like the architecture and landscaping committee. Although it was only the first time I've been, it didn't strike ME as "a group of three" trying to take everything over. They seemed to be asking for community involvement. At least that's my first impression.
This was my fist board meeting as well. It seemed like some issues got resolved. Colt will be replaced by a new security company, the repainting of the red color will happen after September 7th, and battery back-up's will be installed on the gates so they work in power outages.
The proof will be in the pudding. There's a different between asking for input, and listening and acting on it. I think the board starting asking for more input during the meeting because of this blog and the comments on it. Now that we have Penny Lane's site there is a way to communication and share frustrations with everyone else. We never had that before. It's become an important check and balance for our community in my opinion. They also didn't realize that agenda turned off some owners who normally attend. The board won't appoint two new members until late September, or tow months since the Enterprise execs quit. Furthermore, there's alot of some stuff going and it was not on the agenda. We deserved to hear about the other things. They are supposed to REPORT on the general topics of their executive closed sessions but we get nothing.
The way to "know what's going on," is to get involved. The blog is not the HOA, the owners are! Owners of successfull HOA's must be willing to DO, not just SAY. I encourage folks to learn more about HOA's the rights and responsibilities of homeowners in HOAs. The HOA Board of Directors agendas and meetings have items that are for the board ONLY, to discuss, make motions, vote and take action--THIS is right, proper and standard operating procedure for non-profit and for-profit organizations all over the world. The agenda portion for residents is the homeowners's time to speak, provide comment, share frustrations, etc. but YOU HAVE TO SHOW-UP or dial-in to the meeting. This blog is not the official HOA business entity--the ASSOCIATION MEETINGS are! Go to them, support it, give your time and learn what it is that HOAs do for owners and what owners can do for HOAs at:http://www.coachellavalleycai.org/Community-Associations-Institute-Chapter~101108~13510, the Coachella Valley Community Associations Institute. You MUST learn what your rights and responsibilities are as homeowners in an HOA. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and talkin' off the top of your head with no real knowledge regarding the process and how you can make a difference.
This is what I heard at the meeting...
Photo cells for auto turn on/off of the lights...DONE (why didn't Enterprise think of that?)
Painting of the dark rust color starts September 7...DONE (Enterprise is paying)
Battery Packs for gates in emergency...DONE...being installed next week (once again, why didn't Enterprise think of that?).
Towing...no more Mr. Nice Guys...DONE
New Security Service for faster response...COLT is being dismissed and a new company from Cat City hired at half the cost...DONE
Collections and liens on foreclosed properties...DONE
Neighborhood Watch Committee...22 people have offered to be involved.
The truth is that NOT ONE person stepped forward to volunteer to be on the board. ONLY after a board member begged numerous residents for help did ONE person step forward. But they need two replacements and they want people who live on property.
As for Michael Heath from VPM being at the Executive meeting it makes sense. He does have 34 units he's renting on behalf of Enterprise. If Enterprise is out, VPM represents and is taking checks from 34 renters - that's 1/4 of the entire project. It's imperative for everyone that the HOA board has a good working relationship with him because he's overseeing 1/4 of the HOA income. Let's see, how much is $241 times 34 per month? ALOT.
How can an agenda upset anyone? They offered a homeowner's forum before and after the main part of the meeting so people could say their peace. As for executive session, the only reason they have to do it that way is to protect the HOA and homeowners from potential legal ramifications of contracts, negotiations and personal information/situations of individual owners.
If you prefer hiding behind anonymous rantings and ravings on this site go to Craig'slist Palm Springs. If you want to make a difference, apply for the board and/or speak up publicly.
I dont know who wrote the note just befor this one but I am proud to be associated with you. Thank you so much for the positive attitude and step to the plate mentality. I was one of the few sticking up for the board! Once again I comend and thank you. More attitude like this and we will all be enjoying a better comunity.
Hi, I am a new resident of Palermo. My neighbor suggested I attend the the board meeting Monday and then told me about this site. Reading all these comments is kinda crazy. I thought the meeting was really interesting and I was happy to see so many people at the meeting who were interested in the community and to meet my neighbors. I don't know all the background, but I have lived in other gated communities and I was kind of proud that there were so many interested parties. In other communities I have lived at in Arizona and PS, no one even went to the HOA meetings -- no one seemed to care. I appreciated the open forum at the beginning and then they asked for input at the end too. I didn't get the "control" vibe. I didn't say anything because I am new and don't like talking in front of people, but really: "Offensive agenda that turned off people? Insult to owners? Boycott?" Sounds like the the Israelis and the Palestinians! LOL. Such drama! We got a really good deal at Palermo and we love the place. Unfortunately, we don't have time to be on the board but they all seemed to be open to input and at least cared about what's going on. I suspect some of these frustrations are based on the economic situation. It's really tough out there. Did you see today in the news how Riverside San Bernardino County is the number one depressed real estate market in the entire US? Also, can someone tell me who Penny Lane is? Was she at the meeting? Who is Brandy?
Riverside-San Bernardino #1 Worst Place for Real Estate: http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2022/1/
MATH from Chi-town: $241/month x 34 units = $8,194/month x 12 months = $98,328/year in HOA dues from renters. How many units are there? 117? That's 29% of all HOA dues from renters. Now if 8 - 10 other units are in foreclosure and not paying dues those numbers become even more important to keeping the level of service up in the community. If Enterprise is gone, then VPM will be paying rents to the bank who forecloses on them (reportedly MB Financial) and they will probably be responsible for paying HOA dues. Here's a shout out to renters!
My partner and I live in SF and have a place at Palermo. It's true that the Board reached out to us in July to be on the Board and we know they talked to some friends who have a place at Palermo too, but I am already on our HOA Board here and it is a HUGE time commitment. Our friends declined as well. It's a thankless job believe me. No one is ever happy. We declined due to other commitments and our belief that people who live there full time should step up. You should know that these guys on the Board are smart and genuinely care about protecting our investments and theirs. Because we are in real estate and finance, we have spent hours on the phone with one board member giving him guidance and input. We were traveling this week, so couldn't call in, but Enterprise has left them/us holding the ball and they have their hands full. There's a good point somewhere above about why Enterprise didn't do the photo cells for lighting or add the battery packs for the gates in case of emergency. If they were such smart developers would they not have thought about these things? Now, the whole place is our problem/opportunity and we have to pay for their short-sightedness. Being negative, mean, vitriolic, boycotting and accusatory of the board will only backfire and we will be left without anyone guiding us through these tough times. Don't take your misguided frustrations with Enterprise out on them. We will continue to do what we can to help from a distance and we hope owners and renters will join us in supporting the Board and helping them out however we can. Let's give them some credit for volunteering their time and getting done what's been outlined above in the last month. For us, they have earned and deserve our respect and appreciation. MPL, thanks for this open forum to share our thoughts.
I think the board did a bit of clean up on Monday after reading the blog comments here and then starting asking for more input. Power of Penny Lane's site (?). The HOA is not beholden to Heath and VPM. The HOA dues on the rentals must be paid or there's a legal problem. Once or if MB Financial takes over the 30 units this month, they will pay the HOA fees, at least eventually. Banks eventually pay the outstanding HOA fees from the time they have owned a property, unlike deadbeat homeowners going into foreclosure. The only real concern about not getting HOA fees was during the three months that Enterprise stilled owned before foreclosure. HOA fees must be paid whether the units are occupied/rented or not. We're not beholden to VPM and VPM is not management of Palermo, but the board or DRM seem to be giving them "special" authority. Heath has no business at the executive board meeting. There are also concern over why one year leases are actively being signed right now when those units are in foreclosure. It will be something to see what MB Financial has to say about that! In any case, wouldn't it be better for MB Financial to take the units over now and sell them, to get in owners?
Don't forget that Heath does represent the current owners of large portion of the property here. It would not be very prudent or good business to try and lock him out. You cant ask someone to pay over 8k a month in dues and then tell them sit down and shut up. Yes, it is true that you can put a lein on the property but that will not solve cash flow problems. Lets just say for instance that they don't pay and you get a lein, our dues will go up due to cash flow issues. Not even to mention if anyone is going to have the inside scoop of what is going to happen it would be VPM, why cut that inside track out. I for one would rather not get blind sided that some ohther company bought the property and decided to build a shopping mall on the open lot (an exageration but you know what I mean). Just for the record, we were all renters before we bought, I don't know about you but I did not think I was sub class becase I rented instead of bought. They were smarter than we were, they did not spend $300k on a 150k piece of property! You shoud stop taking it out on them because we did
Heath merely is the rental agent. Nothing more. The owner, for now, is Enterprise and maybe soon will be MB Financial. The board or DRM giving VPM "extra" authority on behalf of management is a bad move and unfair to owners who don't have such power.
Actually, and I was very suprised the rental contracts are between VPM and the renter not enterprise. Legally, if Enterprise losses its position the renters have a real problem, they have to keep paying VPM if they hold the money from the new owner there is nothig the renter can do. It sucks for them, they are in a real bad position. They could win in court but you know that would take $$ and time. Not to mention the new tennents don't understand and are not informed of this, they are signing contracts with VPM on a property that is in forclosure. In 90 days period they could all be gone. Moving is not cheap!!!
Sorry, folks, but the HOA dues are paid by the owner not the renter. Enterprise has always paid the HOA dues regardless of whether the unit was empty or rented out. They paid the HOA fees on all empty units before VPM appeared on the scene and after.
To the person who posted at 6:30 p.m.: Very good points. On whose authority are these units still being rented out with new one year leases? It's going to be a nightmare if 30 some units have to move out at once. Talk about security problems.
am worried about the use of our HOA reserves for standard operation costs. This is a concern for people who are full-timers who plan to stay long-term and not just get out soon when it makes investment sense. The reliance on reserves, and no apparent plan to stem it, is another reason we need long-term-minded homeowners to get on the board in those two spots. The good news is that we do have reserves but that must not go away. We need to cut costs to live within our means but not take from reserves.
The fees are paid by the renter, it is added to their rent. It is not fair to say the renter does not pay the fees, VPM collects them. Who ever wrote the 6:58 post, you miss understand. Forget weatehr or not they should be paid by the bank, what if they don't. That was my point, we can stand on hight ground as much as we want, we have to deal with cold hard reality. Reading these posts sometimes makes me feel like some of us owners here have forgoten what heart is. It seems that some us feel that they are "Above" the low class renter. I look around here and it's not like you can tell the renters from the owners. Personally when I was renting I was in the same place for years and treated it like it was my own. For the record there are several owners NOT paying their fees ALL the renters are. As long as they are paying their rent they are paying their fees PERIOD. You can tell they are paying their rent you don't see any evictions notices but plenty of forclosure notices. We need to stop with the "Class" differences and bind together as a community. Just for the record, the average homeowner moves every three years, the average renter stays just under that. Enterprise did not sell us under the plan of loosing $12 million and an under development. You think our reserves are in bad shape now what would we do it the bank that takes the property over, kick out the renters and put them up for sale in this market. (HELLO! PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING NOW) and they decide NOT to pay the fees and recover the expense when the market gets better or when they sell the unit. Do you truly think the multi million dollar finance institutions cares about our measley $1000 lean. It is a cost of business that can be put in a different spot on the balance sheet. I assure you we can get as many points on our side as possible and go to court, Do you want to pay the attorney fees out of our reserve. I learned a long time ago with business NEVER NEVER NEVER sue anyone you can't out spend you will loose almost every time. As far as whos authority is VPM sighning the lease. Very good question, maybe that is why they are inviting them to the executive meeting. I liked the post before that said something to the effect that VPM could go to the executive meeting by the owners could not, sure you can RUN FOR THE BOARD you can be at all of them or are you the type that just sits back and complains and lets others do their biding. The board is in the blind and trying to figure out what is going on for all of us. Now, people need to stop the sory ... wining and being such a snobs!!
MH was brought in by the board to address one executive session agenda item regarding VPM. He was not there for the whole session. He has not been given any "special authority." According to the Chicago Business News story, Enterprise defaulted on July 14 so it will be 3 months after that it will revert to the bank or October 14. Enterprise has continued to pay their dues on all units. Any bank in this market will do whatever they need to do to keep the units rented with income coming in. VPM will likely just work for MB to allow for a clean transition. Then the bank will likely sell the properties to another investor like what happened in La Quinta with KB Homes buying a similar development. (See Desert Sun from last Sunday - there are at least 20 such developments with similar problems in the Valley) No bank in its right mind is going to kick-out renters when there is cash coming in. A future investor may not want to continue to rent after the duration of a lease, but rest assured 30 tenants are not going to be put out at the same time.
Once again, Enterprise paid all hoa fees even when all the units were empty. Also, just like an owner who rents out a unit, they pay when the unit is not rented for a month.
about 9:38 p.m. comment: WOW. Sounds like a board member's defense of VPM. Why, we ask?
As a tenant who pays their rent early every month to owners who are supplementing the rent to pay the mortgage and HOA, I am glad I don't own here. I like Palermo, but it is mis-managed, has a high tenant occupancy ratio, and security issues. I am sad to see coments like the very first one on this post. If I had paid $300-$350 to own here and was made all these legal promises only to have roughly half of them fulfilled I would be pissing and moaning too. I would NOT want some smart aleck telling me to 'get real'. It is fairly obvious the overly long anonymous posts defending HOA/management are from HOA/management. Call it what you want, if you think you do a good job on the board, then these posts shouldn't offend you. You have so much power in this community even though no board member lives here full time, shouldn't these short changed full timers at least be able to voice their opinions?
Hello everyone, I have been following the sight for some time now. I am not much for posting but thought this sight would kind of give me the pulse of the community here. I am not one much for being anonymous so I will introduce myself. My name is Perry and I am a renter here I have been married for 9 years now and have a six year old son that I am quite proud of. I would like to first say that I am so so sorry about what happen to all of you that bought. But being the optimist that I am I would hope that what happened to everyone was more due to the economy then the evil doing to the big cooperation. Let me tell you what I did find here. I have had the pleasure of meeting many of you face to face while starting the Neighborhood watch. I find the people her very nice, intelligent and friendly and am proud to be a part here. All I can do is my part, so here is what I am trying to do to make it better for all of us. I am starting the Neighborhood watch and I could use everyone’s help. My goal is to make this a safer and community and promote good will and a good time for everyone. I hope it to be much more that just a neighborhood watch. I want to have meetings that go beyond just safety. I would like to get some of the local politicians to attend some of the meetings as well. That way everyone can voice their concerns and maybe help get some of your other goals accomplished. It is in my best inertest to do what I can here for several reasons the top ones being that I might buy here and I want to make the best community possible for my son to reside in weather it be temporary or permanent. There is an old saying, it takes a community to raise a child and I firmly believe that. I just want to end by saying that we have some of the most beautiful sights here that one could imagine. The sight or our majestic mountains are a wonderful sight to wake up to and come home to after work. Please email me at pstamas@live.com to get on the email blast list for the Neighborhood watch. Also if you could let everyone know about the watch and how to reach me would help me out a lot. I will contact you with the first meeting date and we will go from there. Thank you for your time
I doubt the bank will want to get into a long-term rental situation. That's not what they do. They will sell the units individuals or in a block or blocks. They want their money. Anybody worried about leases or the signing of 1 year leases should contact the state Department of Real Estate instead of just guessing here.
The post at 4:11 a.m. is dead on. Once the board realizes that management issues are having an impact on property values or rents, they just might act.
What did the board discuss in private session? We are supposed to be given the topics but not the details, so homeowners now may be able to disavow actions taken in executive session because we aren't being told, like if money is being spent and such.
RE: about 9:38 p.m. comment: WOW. Sounds like a board member's defense of VPM. Why, we ask?
Answer: Someone in comments claimed that VPM and MH had special privileges on the board. Nothing could be further from the truth. He was asked to privately address an issue brought up by the board who is watching out for the best interest of the community.
The HOA board must, in protection of the community and homeowners, operate in private at certain times to protect the community from potential legal issues from third parties. No money is ever spent in these meetings.
No one is trying to hide anything. Only protect the community.
This is all getting tiresome but it's just basic that the board "report out" the general topics discussed in closed executive sessions. The members of the association - us homeowners - are supposed to get that. The board at the last meeting even moved a budget discussion to closed session for some (unexplained) reason. That stuff is supposed to be in the open. DRM should know that too?
My last HOA provided real minutes for such meetings. At the last meeting, one board said the HOA board was supporting Enterprise against the city's demand that Enterprise move that pile of rocks and some pipes. What??? When did the board "decide" this on behalf of the members (us)? These are the type of decisions that must to discuss in the open and not on private phone calls between board members. It seems that the meeting agenda never have the big issues on it cuz those seem to get decided get decided some other time. That is why people have stopped attending. It will be interesting to see what happens at the January annual meeting now that some homeowners and renters are meeting with each other.
So far, not ONE person has stepped forward as of Sept 8 or since the last board meeting to be on the HOA board. You can bitch and complain as much as you want as "Anonymous." This is all getting tired. At this point the entire HOA board should/could/would resign and let DRM take over and let the property die in the melting sun. Rather than support and appreciation, we get this bull#$&% Just done with you all. Gonna share an amazing letter with you all tomorrow and you can see what the HOA has to deal with....frickn crazy!
Just to give you a preview of what HOA board members need to deal with, here's part of a private piece of mail received today by one of the HOA Boardmembrs:
"PS: Your SUV is old and outdated. Everyone knows only low end gays drive such old, formerly expensive cars clearly compensating for deep-seated (Sp?) feelings of worthlessness."
Let the property die in the melting sun? Did someone in a management position write that? Terrible.
Was at a little cocktail gathering the other night, and talking about those postings. Really wild, especially the 11:58 one. Sad too.
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